strattera

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by TimG on January 12, 2009 at 11:38pm

Christine:

"O.P." to me means "operating procedure", and I'm sure that's nowhere near what you mean! "Optometric Physician"? "Other People"? "Old Poop"? *grunt* You're going to have to clarify the abbreviation this if I am going to speak semi-intelligently about your post.

"This thread would be more helpful to the OP and other interested parents considering Strattera if we calmly and intelligently discuss the FACTS."

Abbreviations aside, I presented a documentary in the Books/Music/Films section, which ARE the facts I present to parents (and I have, to parents in my neighborhood). Please review the documentary, beginning to end, and give me your opinion. I'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say.

What throws me for a loop in several of your posts are singular statements, which to my eyes, sits on a fence between "it works" and "doctors are misleading so it doesn't work."

My stance is very clear: Drugs are poisons and they don't work--or if they do "work", they will work until the body has accumulated so much of the poison that other side effects present themselves, which require more drugs to treat. It's a circular death-trap... and my position is really not any more complicated than that.

I don't disagree with most of your points, but (if I understand you correctly) you still have the idea that "under the right circumstances psychotropic drugs are a good thing" (ie. "If he understands how strattera works, and that it DOES work on anyone who takes it, he will not fall for the method doctors use to push it."), which is the point of this discussion: There are NO circumstances in which psychotropic drugs are a good thing. ;)

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Christine on January 13, 2009 at 11:27am

Tim - on forums, OP means Original Post (or Poster). Sorry for the confusion.

I will absolutely check out your document - as will I recommend it to my daughter who is 18 and writing a research paper on this, for an instructor who has 2 children on Ritalin. (Our daughter is the child who struggled with ADD symptoms and we pulled out of school in order to educate her without doping her up - which has been completely successful and she is graduating from a public high school.)

Having used Ritalin and then Adderal for 2 school years (not the summer) at ages 11-12, my daughter can now articulate clearly the process from the insider's view. It is a TRIP and there is no denying it. I hear her discussing it with the -many- other teens we know ON this garbage. They talk about the high in the morning and the crash at night after it wears off. My niece is on this stuff as well as birth control pills to control acne! In a competition league my daughter is in, her friend happened to win the world championship - who is ON stimulants and has been for about 10 years.

Interesting to find out how many of the top achievers in our schools and colleges are doing stimulants....I wonder if anyone has researched this?

OK:
You say " (if I understand you correctly) you still have the idea that "under the right circumstances psychotropic drugs are a good thing""

You didn't understand me correctly: I do *NOT* feel drugs for attention should EVER be used. Ever. These drugs should not exist (like most, eh?)

IF there is ARE severely impaired mental patients for whom these radical chemicals may *possibly* improve their quality of life, I have never met one personally, or read about such a case. But that is merely MY view.

So, Tim - I agree with your posts completely - and please forgive me the misunderstanding. I should have been more clear.

It is truly sobering when one realizes how MANY children and adults are on stimulants and depend on them, and are addicted to them to function.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by TimG on January 13, 2009 at 1:03pm

Christine:

"IF there is ARE severely impaired mental patients"... and the only place you would ever find psychiatrists pre-WWII: insane asylums.

"...her friend happened to win the world championship - who is ON stimulants and has been for about 10 years." which should be made illegal, IMO. It's comparable to an athlete doing steroids.

But those crashes you spoke of? Can you imagine the stress of losing the championship AND crashing off the drugs at the same time? Can you say "Columbine" or "suicide"?

Absolutely you and your daughter should view the documentary. Although it has many, many usable quotes, I am certain the events and statistics can be verified with other sources, such as Dr. Biederman's (chief propogator of the "bipolar" myth) bust by a US Senate Committee in 2008. Let me know what you think of the documentary.

It's great your daugther's off the drugs now! I wish her lots of luck on her studies! There's a ton of information out there so she won't be lacking in facts!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrie on January 14, 2009 at 6:00am

Tim,
Would you please elaborate more on Dr. Biederman's bipolar myth? I have never believed that there was ever such a thing as being bipolar; just a "catch all" excuse for doctors to prescribe dangerous mind altering drugs. What a pity. But where can I go to find more information about this? I have a friend that the medical experts have put through heck. She wasn't crazy, but they may make her crazy if they keep treating my friend the way they continue to diagnose her. They could not find the source of her medical problems, so have resorted to giving her shock treatments and telling her that she is bipolar. I am very upset about this, so any help you could shed on this would be most appreciated. I don't want to see my friend hurt by any more "expert" advice that is killing her. Thanks in advance for any help or references you can guide me to; I want to pass this info on to my dear friend and her husband before they both lose their minds.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by TimG on January 14, 2009 at 8:42am

Terrie (or is this Jerry?),

I was stunned to learn recently that electro-convulsive therapy (ECT) is still in practice to this very day. I am very, very sorry to hear about your friend. It honestly pains me to learn of situations like that; where human beings can be so brutally cruel to other human beings. :(

Yours is exactly the kind of reason why I placed the documentary in the books/music/films section of this forum: where 30 years ago "bipolar" didn't even exist to suddenly it's an epidemic where scores of individuals are being "diagnosed" as being "bipolar". Please watch it and show it to your friend. It shows the complete cycle, from conception of the disease and drugs all the way to the end-user (the public).

The burden of proof is in the diagnostic method: there are NO tests of any kind that will conclusively prove that bipolar is linked to a "chemical imbalance" or any such thing. Ask your friend, "Did you get a blood test? X-ray? Biopsy? ANYTHING?" and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that the answer will be a resounding "No!"

There is a little-known law "Informed Conscent" where doctors are supposed to reveal how the diagnosis came about, what treatments are available AND what the potential side-effects of such treatments will be. The burden lies more with the patient to ask these questions but few ever do. They simply except what the doctor claims, simply because there's an "M.D." after the name (and so they must know more than you). But the simple fact is that doctors have the wool pulled over their eyes just as easily as the general public. The only difference is that they are in a position to dish out the drugs, where the public is being told to "ask your doctor about..." in TV commercials.

Let me know what you think of the documentary. I hope it all works out with your friend--that she is pulled out of this cycle of insanity--before they kill her.

Permalink Reply by Christine on January 17, 2009 at 12:10pm

Thanks Tim. She's 18 and will never use them again. She actually has found a way to train her brain to recall/focus through systematic memorizing. She's had amazing results and we saw improvement the first month. 15 min. per day. She was an E student 4th and 5th gr. and we home schooled her at her pace a few years. She is an A B student now about to graduate.

Stimulants don't 'cure.' I thank God she is not on them and found a way to be the beautiful, creative person He designed her to be. : )

I should mention - I feel as strongly as you. I have become accustomed to wording my opinions and views in as winsome a way as possible, gently, so as not to turn off people who cannot (yet) consider that the FDA and AMA are not the -only- ways to view and treat ADHD.

God bless - keep up the good words.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Christine on January 18, 2009 at 3:03pm

" Let me know what you think of the documentary."

It is excellent. Excellent. Thank you so much. I will refer everyone to this documentary in the future, as this is a big topic with parents. Just a few days ago, my neighbor told me her 7 year old is in counseling for 'oppositional defiance disorder' and 'OCD.' I looked at her and said, 'She is seven.' ? (Aren't all 7 year olds a bit defiant??)

I have a hand full of relatives on antidepressants - for otherwise normal reactions to normal life situations: divorce, job loss, struggles. I agree with the doctor in the film who says, 'medicating away symtoms is not the way to work through problems.' (or something close)

Last fall, my son's high school counselor (to her credit) said to me, 'I know you probably wouldn't consider medication. Did you know that exercize and fresh air are at least as effective as antidepressents for depression?' She then went on to suggest our family do out door activities together, more frequently, if our son resisted getting on a team or going outdoors for exercise himself.

When I researched this, I found she was absolutely correct.
Thanks again. I'll pass on this link to others. I sure wish I had had all this information 10 years ago.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by TimG on January 19, 2009 at 12:34pm

Christine:

You're welcome!

I hope others realize the same benefit you have while watching this documentary (I bought the DVD and began passing it around to my neighbors! hehe)

And to support the information, Elli Lily had recently been fined 1.42 billion by the Justice Department to settle civil and criminal investigations involving their antidepressant Zyprexa.

The Fox newscast can be found here.

It's really just a drop in the bucket for a big pocket like Elli Lily, but hopefully we're only seeing the beginning of a flood of lawsuits that will knock down Big Pharma to Little Pharma--and maybe even channel the FDA back to what it's supposed to be doing: protecting public health!

Permalink Reply by Just Me on January 13, 2009 at 3:57pm

My son used it and became depressed, very needy, and developed insomnia.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Christine on January 17, 2009 at 2:02pm

It is actually very dangerous for this reason and should have a black box warning, in my view.

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by melody4084 on January 13, 2009 at 5:43pm

I was prescribed it a year ago (for ADD) and it caused heart palpitations and panic attacks for me. My heart would start beating really fast for no reason, I would freak out and call 9-1-1. I figured out it was the Strattera so I stopped using it and I no longer have the heart problems.

Even though Adderall has some bad side effects, I've had a better experience with it than Strattera. I've also heard bad things about Strattera from friends as well, but a lot of my friends use Adderall and have no complaints. However it could cause problems in the long-term.

I would just research it a little. Good luck!

▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by TimG on January 14, 2009 at 12:32pm

Terrie/Jerry:

(I answered you this morning before work and now it's lunchtime! LOL)

I did a quick Google search on Dr. Joseph Beiderman and the first item on the search was a New York Times article on what I mentioned to Christine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/08conflict.html

This one quote from the article (aside from mentioning his 1.6 million of unreported income he received from drug companies, specifically Johnson & Johnson) mentions his influence in the "bipolar epidemic."

Although many of his studies are small and often financed by drug makers, his work helped to fuel a controversial 40-fold increase from 1994 to 2003 in the diagnosis of pediatric bipolar disorder, which is characterized by severe mood swings, and a rapid rise in the use of antipsychotic medicines in children. The Grassley investigation did not address research quality.

And here's a second article from the Wall Street Journal:

I don't know if this helps, but there you have it!

▶ Reply to This

• First
• Previous
• Next
• Last